Jon Pugh on Why the Relationship Matters More Than the Deal

Host1 00:00

So I sold five to fifty million dollar homes along the coast in Southern California. Sold Nicolas Cage's house for $35 million.

Host 00:06

Being able to sell Nicolas Cage's house is a cool story to be able to tell, I'm sure.

Host1 00:09

The whole story's actually wild. She's not Diane Keaton, the movie star. She's just Diane, the lady who lives down the street.

Host 00:15

It's always so interesting to me to see how it shakes out for people that that do what you do.

Host1 00:20

Reality, the power of social media is not in being interesting, it's being interesting. You don't know the path that you're meant to follow.

Host 00:27

What's up, everybody? Grant Wise here. Welcome back to the Partner Profit Podcast. Excited for my conversations today with John Pugh. He's gonna take us on a deep dive into how can we turn our relationships into revenue. I'm excited for the conversation. John, man, thanks for jumping on with me.

Host1 00:42

Thanks for having me, Grant. I'm really excited to be here and connect with your audience.

Host 00:46

Yeah, yeah. Well, for the people who are listening to this and maybe don't know much about you, give us a bit of the background. How did you get to where you are today?

Host1 00:52

Well, I was born into real estate. So my parents were in the business. I started passing out flyers on my rollerblades when I was about seven years old. And that was I got my friends to do it for me. I made like 10 cents a house. I kept half of it. I gave them half. That was my first lemonade stand. And uh just got in the business with my parents. And then I started working with an agent in their office, and we sold ultra luxury high-end real estate for about seven years. So I sold five to fifty million dollar homes along the coast in Southern California, sold Nicholas Cage's house for $35 million, a bunch of exciting things like that. And after seven years, I realized that I didn't really want to be like the butler, the maid. Like we were selling these houses, we weren't living in them. And I didn't feel like I was having a ton of impact. It was helping rich people move down the street. Like they're just trading houses. Like it wasn't, there wasn't a lot of value there, in my opinion. You know, money was fine, but it wasn't fulfilling. And so I wanted to go out and I wanted to work with like normal people and I wanted to help them through one of their biggest life financial decisions. And I started doing that and built up a successful business. And I got a call from my business partner, and he offered me an opportunity to come look at a different company. And I went over to Keller Williams. And when I got there, I really learned so much about business, running a real estate team like a business. And I fell in love with leadership. And I got the opportunity to run the sister office down the street in Huntington Beach. One of my agents convinced me to sell my house in Irvine, moved to Huntington Beach, and uh the rest is kind of history. I've been in a leadership realm of real estate since then for, I don't know, better part of a little over a decade, and um been an EXP for about six years, a little over six years. Have grown a group of just about a thousand agents in that time. And we're in almost every state in the United States. And I love giving back, helping agents build mission-driven businesses, help them spend more time with their family, leverage, create passive income, build memories. Like that's that's my whole jam.

Host 02:40

I love it, man. Sounds like an amazing background. Being able to sell Nicholas Cage's house is a cool story to be able to tell, I'm sure.

Host1 02:46

The whole story's actually wild, but I won't tell it right now. But uh way we can't tell it. I'll tell you the short, so it took us the short version. It took us three years to get him to sell. And each time we went to him, we had the buyer, he was building a $50 million yacht and he needed a place to park it. And there were only three spots in Newport Harbor you could park this boat. And so the first time we came to him, he said, I'll sell for 25 million, and we said, Okay, and then he backed out. And then the next time we came to him, he said he'd sell for 30 million and we said, okay, and he backed out. And then there was a neighbor who had a family member who had some uh mental health issues and wandered naked around the the beach in the community and somehow into the backyard and just got into the house through an open door. And Nicolas Cage woke up with this man in his bedroom naked, and he had just put on, he had just put on his leather jacket out of the closet, and his wife was sleeping next to him in bed. And so the next day he told the guard, he's like, Hey, it's been nice knowing you. I won't be back. And we got the call, and the call was, Hey, for 35 million bucks, you can have it. And so I said, I said three years later, I was like, Man, if I had known that's all it would have taken, I would have gotten naked and gone into his three years ago. We would have had this deal done, no problem.

Host 03:57

That is a wild story. I would love to hear the extended version of that at some point.

Host1 04:00

But that really is a true story. That really happened.

Host 04:04

I don't even think you can make stuff up like that. Like, I mean, I'm sure somebody can, but like when you hear a story like that, you're like, Yeah, I don't think you could even make something like that. So I was asking around and people said that you were you were the guy when it comes to like building relationships. Obviously, you know, a lot of your success has proven that. How do you go about doing it? How do you go about developing relationships with people? And and you know, I relationships are a massive part of leadership and building community and stuff like that. Would love to just kind of have you unpack, you know, what what's your process for doing this?

Host1 04:31

When I was young, uh, I was starting out on my own after I left this partnership. And my stepdad, who was a brilliant real estate guy and had run brokerages for a long time and just a really, really good dude, he said the old adage, people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. And as a young guy, I was like, Oh, yeah, that's like that's old school stuff. That doesn't apply anymore. And man, did I get my teeth kicked in learning that to be true? And so I really developed this passion for understanding people and and what mattered to them and figuring out how I can help facilitate them being in an environment that will help them get what they want. And so whether it be like my superpower is to connect people to either the people, resources, tools, environment, whatever it is they need to get where they want to go, I'm really good at connecting those dots. I've leveraged social media to a high degree in order to do that. So I am a strong believer that social media is a very powerful tool. It also can be a very destructive tool. And I think that it is used, it is misused by many. And the reason that it's misused is because people treat it kind of like an open house. They put a sign in the yard, they put a post up, and they wait for people to come to them. And in reality, the power of social media is not in being interesting, it's being interested. So, how can we go out and get every time someone posts on social media, they're basically screaming, like, give me attention, look at me. And so, how can we go and fill that need for people? How can we take those things that we learn from the billboard that they're putting up and use those as moments of connection, whether it be publicly in the comments, whether it be privately in a DM, whatever the case may be, those are operating these are all people. I think we lose sight of that. And all of these people have problems and dreams and goals. And so rather than being like, I don't get hung up on like, oh, this person has so many followers or this per like everyone's just a person at the end of the day. My experience working with like ultra luxury wealthy people and celebrities and things like that as a younger person. I remember one day I was uh at an open house and Diane Keaton walked in. And I grew up in Southern California, so like you see celebrities places, right? And uh she walked in the house, and I was so excited to just go up to her and talk to her. And I spent like 20 minutes talking to her, not about her movies, not about her being Diane Keaton, like about the property. I was like, this limestone was quarried from this specific place, and like this is why it is the way it is. Like, we just got in this whole nerdy architectural conversation because she's not Diane Keaton, the movie star, she's just Diane, the lady who lives down the street. So I think that's a big part of how I approach it. Like, I just I really connect with people, I treat people like people, and I understand that everybody has their own hopes, goals, and dreams. And if we can help people take one step closer to what that is, that's gonna develop a deeper resonance.

Host 07:11

I really like the positioning there. It's not about being interesting, it's about being interested. I have noticed that. What is that Ziggler quote? If like you help enough other people get what you want, then you'll get what you want. Or what they want, then you'll get what you want. And um, I'm one of those, like, so I've often been one of those like ghost on social. Like, I I look at social media, but then I don't never uh really engage, really interact. And then as an extension of that, you come back and some of my content is like, man, why is nobody engaging? Why is nobody interacting? And I'm like, wait, wait a second. I need to go, I need to go back and like like people's stuff and comment on people's stuff. And then I just noticed that my stuff started to get more engagement.

Host1 07:46

And I'm like, law of reciprocity. So number one, the algorithm actually works that way, it ties you together. So when you engage with somebody's content, it shows you there, like there is a reciprocity built into the algorithm, but also there is this natural law of reciprocity in the universe, right? And when we give, we receive. And I can't receive something I don't already have. And so the way I demonstrate to the universe that I have that or that I have space for that is by giving that. And then that flags the universe that like I'm open to also receiving that back.

Host 08:16

Yeah. I also like what you said is like I or I think about this all the time. You're talking about, you know, people always want hundreds of thousands of views or millions of views or whatever. But it's like, do you know how what it looks like to put a hundred people in a room? Like, if a hundred people watched your stuff, I was just in an event in Houston yesterday when I was speaking and there was 200 people in the room. It's a lot of people, like it takes up a massive amount of space.

Host1 08:37

I posted that video. I posted that video like within the last month. Is I said, you know, you're you're upset because you're in 200 view jail, but is it who's watching it? Is if the right 200 people are watching your content, you if I told you to get up tomorrow, not you, because you do this and I do this, but if I took the random person who complains about having low views and I put them on a stage tomorrow and said, speak in front of 200 people for two minutes, they would be terrified. And yet here they are complaining, they're like, Nobody watched my video, like, yeah, they did, and you have another opportunity to show up later today and tomorrow and everything else. And so the reality is is like we want quantity, but like, man, you know, there that old adage is uh, you know, if if you have five friends when you're you know 50 or 60 years old, like if you can count the number of friends you have in one hand, like you're lucky, like the power of a few connections, like Jesus changed the world with 12 people. It it takes way less people than you think sometimes.

Host 09:35

I think that um not enough people like realize like the gravity of what you just said. Jesus changed the world with 12 people. If you think about like where the you know the Christian faith is today globally, and how how just like what has transpired over uh centuries, it's like man, I've noticed this is like the people that have done a phenomenal job of doing the little things well over a long sustained period of time, like just creating content, building connections, engaging with people. And you you look up and like five years goes by, 10 years goes by. Those people today maybe still don't have the largest followings on social media, but they have these like raving fan-like people that just do whatever it is that they say. I have a client that's got she's become a friend, client friend, and she's got for 40,000 followers on Instagram. Well, that's we've used that, you know, not only does she already have a very successful business in her own right, but we used it to launch a course that got to $50,000 a month, and then we used it to launch an AI company that got to $70,000 a month. And it's like, you don't have to have like massive amounts of followers or massive amounts of views or massive amounts of any of these things to build these raving fan-like relationships, but you do have to consistently be interested in people to what you're saying.

Host1 10:49

Well, what that is, that that's just a depiction of trust, right? Be when people trust you, they'll do what you tell them is good for them or to do because you've built that over time. And so she's developed that authenticity and that trust and that loyalty with her audience, which is very, very powerful. And we are in, and I was telling this to a coaching client earlier today, we are in an attention economy. We understand that, right? This is very prevalent, it's very obvious, right? The the more eyeballs, the more attention you can get, the more money you can make. But there's a caveat to that, and that is that the the way to combat quantity and this this madness that is, and and AI is coming for that. And the way to combat that is with real relationships. Real relationships and real trust will always beat out this mass hysteria, this this wave that AI is gonna come take out.

Host 11:42

100%. I couldn't agree more. I could not possibly agree more with what you're saying. Everybody keeps asking me, you know, I've been in the real estate game for almost 15 years now, and mainly on the marketing, advertising, and sales side. Now, what I do is mildly different. But, you know, what do you think is gonna happen in the next few years? And I've said this on repeat the people that take the time to build a personal brand and to create a community around that personal brand will be some of the most successful people that you will know because of AI, because of the lack of trust that exists, some people call it a trust recession.

Host1 12:17

It's the best thing ever for people who like people and people who are leaders and people who like relationships. This is the best thing that could ever happen. I agree. I agree because you now will have this vacuum and this drought of community and connection. And if you know how to provide that to people, that is something that AI will not do. And and it's gonna be really fun. It's gonna be really, it's gonna be really fun to be a part of that space because AI is cool and AI is gonna create a lot of cool stuff and it's gonna solve a lot of problems. There's no getting around that. That's happening one way or another. But what's the what's the mirror to that? What's the opposite side?

Host 12:58

Yeah, it's that you have more time to build amazing relationships. Like that's that's really the trade-off, and that's how we're using it. Like, we're using AI to get work done at insane paces. Like, I cannot fathom what I can do today versus what I could do five years ago. Like, to me, it just absolutely blows my mind, especially now with AI agents that are like just working simultaneously on stuff. But that what that does is that gives me more time to do stuff like this, to sit on social media and chat with people, to pick up the phone and call people, just all the stuff that I could never do as an entrepreneur five years ago because I was just slammed with work, like had so much going on. Now it's like I can get my like work done in 10 to 20 hours a week, and I can build relationships for 20 to 40 hours a week now. And that's just something that maybe I have always had the opportunity to do that. Maybe just didn't have a staff. A lot of times, startups, you know, you've got to just be scrappy and do what you can with what you got. But it's insane. It's insane. I'm gonna talk a little bit more about building trust. You know, how can somebody create trust? And I know we're talking about, you know, building community and those types of things, but what are things that you guys actually do to build trust and build community so that people can do what we're talking about is build these relationships that scale through social media.

Host1 14:15

Tell somebody when it's the wrong fit. That's one of my favorites. Like walk away from the deal that isn't right for someone. So we see all the time, like I so I run a coaching company, we we help agents grow their teams, we help agents build their revenue share organizations. And we're, you know, most of what I I do these days is focused on growth. But I've done a lot of production coaching. I've helped agents grow their businesses and list more homes and work with more buyers and everything else. And at the end of the day, like you're in a very powerful position when you can be honest with somebody and say, hey, I care more about this relationship than I do about this deal. Because when you do that, you create a raving fan who might work with you anyway for one reason or another. They might like time might change, right? I told somebody the other day, I'm like, I literally had a call and I was like, this the timing is not right for you. You don't have the bandwidth for this. I don't want you to sign up for coaching, but I want you to prepare so that in six months you can say yes to this. Because in six months, you're gonna be able to capitalize on the seasonality of the market combined with a few other factors. And I think this is really gonna be good for you. And so I'm willing to help you prepare for that. I have another guy who I could have signed up easily, but he wasn't in a financial position to be able to make the key hire that it was gonna take. And so I said, you know what? Let me help you for free get yourself into a position where you can make that hire for that director of growth. And then not only will I coach you, I'll coach that person as well. And you're gonna get a lot more value out of it. Because if it sounds counterintuitive to walk away from the sale, to delay, to not close, right? Every every salesperson is like, no, close them all. But the reality is, is that leads to a one and done type business model. And I don't want to live like that. I want to create loyal, repeat customers from every interaction. And so if I make sure that the people that say yes are going to be able to get the results that I know I can deliver, then every single one of them is going to become a success story. And those success stories are going to lead to more opportunities. And then I can be more selective because I'm really passionate about my time. My favorite thing to do is not coach people on how to build companies. My favorite thing to do is coach little kids on how to swing a bat and throw a football and kick a soccer ball. And so, in order for me to be able to have time to dedicate, you know, right now I'm coaching 27 youth athletes five days a week, six days a week. If I'm gonna have time to do that, I better be selective about the people that I'm spending my time with on a business level. And so that's really a matter of finding your right fit. And if you find your right fit and you know exactly what you do well and you say no to the wrong people, then you're able to optimize.

Host 16:46

I love everything you're saying. I've talked on this show many times about how a lot of people in this industry sell from a place of scarcity. It's like they sell based on what's currently in their pocketbook. Like, well, I don't have any money, so I've got to get a deal done. And it's very disingenuous. It takes you out of the mode of, well, I'm just here to help and serve and to give to people. And if you do what you're describing, I think people listening to this would absolutely say, well, that's counterintuitive. I I need to get the sale. But if you do what John's saying, actually what happens is you end up with more opportunity than you can possibly think of because you're practicing in an abundance principle. Like, I'm just here to help this person, I'm gonna get more customers. I know that without a doubt in my mind. And so I don't need to like hard sell these people, I just need to help these people. And as an extension of doing that, they're gonna go share their experience with other people. If nothing else, I've put a lot of good out in the world and I'm gonna get a lot of good back, as opposed to just like, no, I need to take their money, I need to take their money, I need to take their money. Stop selling based off what's in your wallet. Just start trying to help people, and you will end up with more business than you possibly could ever, ever be able to take care of.

Host1 17:55

Yeah, one of my favorite things is you know, how to win friends and influence people, and it's this idea of a relational debt. And so you can't draw from an empty bank account. So people frequently try and draw from an empty bank account. You've made no deposits in this relationship, and yet you want a referral, you want a customer, you want a review, you want a testimonial, like you, you haven't you you got no money in the bank, you can't make that deposit. You or you can't make that withdrawal. You have to make deposits first. And so if you treat every relationship like a bank account and you make consistent, valuable deposits, then when you need something, you can take a withdrawal. You can ask for that referral, you can ask for that introduction, you can ask for that business, you can say, Hey, trust me on this. I'm launching a new product. I I know it's not proven. Just trust me, I want you to be one of the first people to sign up. And they will because again, you haven't led them wrong. You've made those deposits, those deposits are there. And so that's just a beautiful way to play this game and just lead with value and lead with contribution. And I'll tell you, it's hard. I've had to tell, you know, I remember a time where I had to pull over. I was in my in-laws' car. We're driving through Yosemite. It's beautiful. And I hardly have cell phone service. I'm on a family vacation. And I had to have them pull the car over on the road to take a call, a call with a client. And I had no money in my bank account. I was like, I was like very broke. And this was my one deal. And it was like a, I remember it was like a $17,000 check that I was gonna get when this deal closed. It was like a week away from closing. And we had a very small issue that was holding up the deal. And I remember having to tell my client they wouldn't budge, the seller wouldn't budge on this issue. And I remember having to tell my client that the right thing to do was cancel the deal. What it meant for me was that I wasn't gonna be able to make my mortgage payment. And it was the hardest thing I've ever had to do. But it's one of those things that still is like super emotional to me today because it was a defining moment for my character and my core values. And had I not done that in that moment, I don't know what the rest of my career would have looked like.

Host 19:51

So good. I've heard many stories like the one that you just told. And it's always so interesting to me to see how it shakes out for people that that do what you do. Yeah, I think it just sends a signal. I don't know if it is for you, but for me, it's a trust in a higher power. Like I'm I'm going to be okay. I have a hundred percent success rate of surviving the bad things that I've been through so far. I'm going to be okay. We just need to do what is the right thing in this particular situation. And if you have that mindset in relationships, you will pretty much never fail. You might have some painful experiences. Sure, people might let you down. Sure, sure, sure. You know, you can go on a laundry list of things that could happen, but you will just never feel bad about having that mindset, about practicing the way, you know, building amazing relationships the way that you're talking about, man. That's it's awesome.

Host1 20:37

If this thing didn't happen, then this thing wouldn't happen, which might lead to this amazing thing happening. So, like you don't know the path. It's all interconnected. You don't know the path that you're meant to follow. And so that's where trust comes in. Like you can get from California to New York with just your headlights on in the dark, but you can't see the whole journey. You can only see what's ahead a couple hundred feet. But that that's kind of the way it is, right? You have to just trust in the next couple hundred feet, and that's where core values are so important to me. When we talk about building relationships, like I thrive on building relationships where we share core values because that connects everyone on that level. Like, if I do business with somebody or think about doing business with somebody that has different core values than me, I know that's gonna have friction. I know that's gonna be a miserable experience. And so I strive to live my core values and to promote my core values out loud so that I can turn away the people who don't share those and I can attract the people who do because those are your filter. Those are your filter to what you say yes to and what you say no to. And when you're good at what you do, you're gonna need a filter because you're gonna have a lot of things come your way. And you have to be able to figure out which are the right things and which are the wrong things. And the things that align with your core values are the things that are gonna feel like, you know, ice skating on smooth ice, right? They're gonna feel like flying, you know, a million miles an hour. But when you are not in alignment with that, you're driving over a rocky road, you got a flat tire, you're pushing a shopping cart with that broken wheel. Like that's what happens when you are working in an environment where you are not in alignment with your core values.

Host 22:19

It's so good. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you spending some time with us today. This has been an awesome conversation. I'm gonna respect your time. I always like to ask, how can the listeners of the podcast partner with you? What's important to you right now and how can we help you grow?

Host1 22:32

I appreciate it so much. So uh you can follow me. My Instagram handle is at it's John Pugh. So it's J-O-N-P-U-G-H. And then my business one is at agent attraction playbook. So if you want to grow your team or you want to grow a revenue share organization or anything growth in the real estate field, uh that is the place to be. I love DMs. I love people reaching out to me, being like, hey, I watched that podcast, I saw that. So if you're watching this, please reach out to me. Yes, I still sponsor agents at EXP. So if you're looking for somebody to help you, guide you, partner with you, help you grow your career, I do that as well. And if you just want to be friends, you want to talk business, you want to talk youth sports, whatever it is, please hit me up, DM me. I love building relationships and having connections, especially from somebody uh who might be a mutual friend of ours or might be a listener of your show.

Host 23:18

I love it, man. We'll make sure that we link up the ways that people can connect with you in our show notes. Encourage you to do that if you are listening to this. Thank you again, John. This has been awesome and I appreciate it a ton. Thanks, Grant. It's been a pleasure. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you guys for continuing to listen to the Partner and Profit Podcast. This has been another amazing conversation. I'll see you in the next one. Peace.